JUDE is relatively a new band from Lodz Poland which I had opportunity to see during my last easteuropean travel. It was a very strange coincidence to catch them playing live in Warsaw where I’ve spend few hours. I’ve never heard them or about them before but the amazing live performance have left me astonished and confused. I had to ask about some aspects of the musical and visual output. This interview was done by phone and mail. In my opinion quite a lot of interesting things were said so it can be recommended for this issue of LUX. There have been a few small modification between the time of the conversation and the publication. Read

LUX: The first question is pretty obvious, no doubt that you have heard it many times before, let’s begin with the question about your band’s name? It’s kinda confusing this days…

I choose this name as a strong, powerful word overloaded by various meanings which in the place I live still conjures radical opinions and actions. JUDE – Jew is a key word – slogan it is present almost everywhere, meaning for alien, evil, isolation and conspiracy. Used as an equivalent of greed and dishonesty. Generations who haven’t had any contact with jewish people are still thinking this way are still using those words. Our name isn’t very original. Lodz and almost every city in Poland is full of wall inscriptions jude, stars of David. We’ve got two football clubs here and their supporters call each other jude- jew. it’s the worst name for enemy here. You see jude raus on the walls, recently iI saw graffitis saying also punk jude, You get it everywhere. I go to school by tram and I see it. Want it or not- it‘s in your face, it attacks you from the walls and simply sink inside you. This name is like an exorcism.

LUX: Where does it come from?

It exists in common consciousness, you hear it everyday. I’m sure you know the slogan: „the pollacks suck it with their mothers milk”. Even Celine who was well known for his anti semitism described antisemitism as catharsis, common rite practiced as a cure for fears and frustrations by europeans during the ages. A rite unifying the masses against the stranger, the scapegoat. Rites of lynch. Look- in ancient Rome the Christians  were accused of being a jewish conspiracy sect. Like one needs god to fulfill its existence another needs a  jewish world conspiracy to explain all  the questions all mechanisms running the world.

LUX: But what for ? Why are you speaking about all those things ?  Where those interests come from ?

Actually in the whole world every day approx 3000 people die in 30 wars. Daily circa 1500 persons commit suicide. It makes sense for us to think about. You may ask why people write books about war, why somebody read those books, why they are doing documentaries about holocaust. You can tell: this is different they are scientists and you are a punk singer. I have to say- this is made not for entertaining people perhaps this is another form of entertainment itself, right ? We exist inside. Even when everything around tells us to forget it fast or join the culture of happiness. We live in the times of  so called x generation. But we deal with it everyday. Nobody can rid me off my own right to reflection I live very near the borders of Lodz Ghetto, Jacek and Lukasz live inside its old territory. Those traces are present almost everywhere, my friends in Lodz, Gdansk live in blocks of flats left by German people. Many people are still using furniture, dishes left by them. This is a fact and I suppose it isn’t so unimportant. We can’t step forward without any awareness., Its like a demonstration, certain kind of consciousness. This is real. We perform in Gdansk, Torun or Wroclaw and we know that those cities had different names: Danzig, Thorn, Breslau, it doesn’t end in this point and it had its consequences.

LUX: How do you express it ? Where you put this consciousness ?

We try to show it in various different ways breaking the rules of an obvious rock gig –we distribute flyers, posters, we show videos concerning the past of those places. Performing in Gdansk for example, before our set we have shown our homemade montage of old archive pictures showing Gdańsk (Danzig)  in thirties, in the age of The Free City – Freie Stadt Danzig, it was touching to the majority of the audience, many people were confused seeing our video montage- their downtown covered with nazi Standarten.

LUX: How does this problem look besides the  hardcore punk scene, outside the underground?

In the society large amounts of hypocrisy are still present and incountable. Meanwhile in Germany people have tried to revindicate the contemporary history, here almost all powers go to wash themselves from all responsibility, try to make a clean image of a heroic nation. Some of the facts tell otherwise. Some of polish people participated in the jewish holocaust, there were numerous acts of collaboration. Because of this it is never too much to say about, right ? Because of this never is too much to say about the polish involvement in holocaust, about the 1968 when the rest of survivors were legally evicted from this land. Now the number of publications and a free open discussion is larger but you can hear also a big yelling of race and faith defenders. Those nazis are hidden under the glossy lucre of catholic national religion. It is sick, and this country is still sick. I suppose the time to say who is who is coming down. Nobody here wonders when they hear that the society we live in is full of violence. I see it every day. I keep my eyes open even  in a literal sense. Life here is hard, there’s no reason to ignore it. We try to see it without any prejudices. We speak about things experienced by us or about things which are close to us or are coming here directly. OK perhaps this is not very friendly but who says it has to be ? Who says it has to look this way ? Perhaps we are saying nothing new and we are concentrated on the evil side but it concerns us and we refuse to be blind.  JUDE had a bad message and the messenger who carries bad news is always hated.

LUX: You’ve been accused of being a nazi band. Where it comes from ? How do you deal with those accusations  ?

Yea there’s a certain hype around us, or thousands of gossips. People judge us before any kind of personal contact. Pointless view. Those prejudices are so stupid, sometimes it’s so hard to deal with it. We use nazi visuals, graphics, films from that era. I think we always put it in a right context. It’s in your face, sometimes it’s brutal, straight forward but no fiction in it. Some opinions concern our way of looking, they called our image totalitarian. I don’t agree. We wear black, boots short hair, but is it nazi? It’s rather punk. I don’t care. People always see what they want to see. So much of these opinions are based on clichés. Nobody who had met us or had any contact with us will agree to this  bullshit. This is for real.

LUX: Do you have any problems with censorship ?

Officially there’s no censorship in Poland anymore. But it  is still present  in various hidden forms. Some people are scared of our name, logo, way of looking and so (is it all scary ?) We haven’t had not any particular pressure pressions but some persons tried to cancel our shows or to break them. We  were accused of nihilism, fascism, pornography etc. I realize that some of our stuff can be controversial but the interpretation depends on the audience. People always see what they want to see..

LUX: I’m sure you can agree that all what you are showing, your name, logo can be  confusing. Me myself I have heard such opinions.. Don’t you think such things can attract some nazis to come at your gigs ?

No, definitely not. I don’t agree. Nobody has ever seen a nazi at our gigs. They have no access to places where we usually play. Our name and our image outfit have nothing to do with it. Some days ago I was speaking with a friend of mine from Potsdam, he told me about bands from Germany who have names like BUCHENWALD or HITLER. I think it’s stupid according to fact that they play a sort of mindless noise. We particularly didn’t choose our name to get noticed like a bunch of suckers who want to thrill some PC devotees. I think our name has a lot of sense and we didn’t choose it without any reason. I’m a little bit tired  having always to explain all these problems.  I think all we say is clear enough. OK. it can be annoying or sarcastic in a certain way but I suppose punk is not only about being friendly, smiley and having good time together. This means escapism for me. We have to deal with it. To make it loud, true not repeating always the same tunes and same slogans. All we try to do is to make it different way. Why does it make such problem ?

LUX: Don’t you think somebody can see it too extreme?

No, I don’t think so. Yes  we have dead bodies, fascist, war on our videos etc but should we say: this is unfriendly and disgusting and throw it out ? I always wonder why punk people make such problems? This way it become so narrow minded, full of cowardice. Where has free expression gone?

LUX: Are you totally against censorship? What about racist/fascist propaganda? I mention various opinions on that.

By any means necessary. Destroying and annoying nazis in any possible way is an obligation today, also by refusing them their right to free speech, publishing etc. It is a must to deprive their right to present and show their views, I think they don’t have any right to voice their filthy opinions. I don’t care about the reasons of libertarian people who argue against any censorship. In my own opinion they are fucking blind.  Some radical anarchists say- we have to permit them to show their opinions and people to judge for themselves. Despite I don’t hope that people here are smart enough to see through rhetoric and bullshit those fuckers are putting about I am for acting directly using any means possible.  

LUX: Isn’t a little bit ambiguous ? Being punk and pro censorship?

You’ve said you suffer from some censorship but at the same moment you declare yourself as a defender of some of its forms.

I’m so hateful that I think of all kinds of war against them, right ? Using all possible ways. Unleash them all, one against another.

LUX: OK. Let me turn back to your band -how long has JUDE been around for its present form?  How the band came together?

We started to play in 93 but at the beginnings it looked so different it was a simple experimentation  with very raw and crude instrumentation like oil drums, very simple electronics, tapes loops etc. Something very common for many beginners. Lots of improvisations, jamming etc. None of us are professional musicians, we all made it  ourselves without any help from anybody. In fact we learn all the time. We all treated this first period as a very important experience, very important for what we do today. Besides all of what we show on stage under the name JUDE we are working on other projects. For me this band is like a musical laboratory in a permanent evolution We act as a consolidated group of individuals but we are not closed in what we do now.  We didn’t attach some closed formula to our expression. All what we do is in kind of permanent evolution it is changing all the time as we do.

LUX: Which kind of people come to see you playing in Poland ?

It depends on city and venue. We try to play in various different places. It’s mostly punk/hardcore crowd but fortunately not only. Sometimes its such a bunch of artsy snobs, I like when the audience is varied  but mostly it is a crowd of various freaks. When we were at an Amnesty International meeting we played next to an ethno group of  people from north Africa but the audience didn’t like our music.

LUX: Describe your obvious gig in Poland.

It’s hard to tell we don’t play very often – and each gig is different. We always try to have an impact on the place where we play. We try to avoid ordinary rock clubs. Usually they have a shitty design and are full of drinks and tobacco publicity. When we do play in such places, we try to arrange the stage cover those publicity neon’s or banners. Our set needs some sort of environment. We had performances in culture houses (It is sort of an ungdomshuset in north European countries), warehouses, galleries. We played in an ancient synagogue, our first gig was in an old residence of an XIX century capitalist, owner of a big textile enterprise in Lodz. Recently we did a gig in medieval castle. We feel good in such places.

LUX: Can you explain what your lyrics deal with?

I use words in various languages, most of them are in English, now this is accessible to me It is the easiest way to express my… I can’t say only anger or frustration. It is hard to explain the meaning of all those shouted clauses. I claim all my impulses, instincts, daily experiences, also my own perception. Complexes. Consumption and existence. Maximalizing it to heal and to cleanse.

LUX: How people react ? What is the response ?

Sometimes this is very important, sometimes not  but believe me- our performance is an emotional discharge. When sour pour into my eyes I don’t care if my lyrics offend anybody or if they are too nihilistic. All I need then is one big constructive reload. One time we call for some sensual  response another time we want something more from the audience. All forms of interpretation are equal.

LUX: Do you have any contact with the audience ?

Yes I do. Of course there is a certain kind of  common relation. We are not closed. Playing we are absolutely concentrated on our thing. But everywhere we play I see people and I know who are in front of me.  If we tried to avoid this contact we cannot perform in public.

LUX: Tell me something about your local scene. If you take part of it ?

No doubt. It changes day by day. People come and go, fortunately we have some wealthy and active people to whom punk still means life. They are still here. There is also plenty of do – nothings like everywhere. Drugs are another big problem nowadays. But the state of independent, underground (I think those words means something) culture is not so weak.  There is  an excellent place to do gigs/performances/parties here. The KLUB C4. I’m sure some people know HOMOMILITIA, TOXIC BONKERS, DISGUSTING LIES or SELF HATE, many individuals produce music alone like SPEAR or UNION. Presently are various different kinds of radical sound. As JUDE we are part of this whole scene and we participate in some of its activities, our involvement is not enormous. Now the band takes up most of our time. I stopped promoting WUNDERWAVE gigs in Lodz, many years I took part, cooperating with various individuals. I designed posters and flyers for punk shows in Lodz. I’ve made logos for HOMOMILITIA and TOXIC BONKERS etc. Now I make a new zine PLUS ULTRA, (my  ZYGOMA from the eighties is over). I write articles for others zines I try to do it as good as possible.

LUX: What is Lodz like?

Lodz is the city of textile industry, there are other factories too. In last few years many big enterprises owned by state bankrupt, they were divided under various little companies. Today’s big corporate business is also present. We are surrounded by industry zones. It have of course a common point with our music and all our way of expression. Its impossible to be indifferent, insensible to this powerful impact. This influence is excellent.  

LUX: How do you see the state of polish society and social life in general ? What are your political views ?

All I see is power corruption and lies and besides off all -money, money of course.

LUX: What about the political transformation in Poland?

Those changes can be described by two words: americanisation and westernisation. Consumerism is a common cult without any exceptions, you are worth as much as what you can eat or consume, shopping as a final human expression. No need to describe it  you have it all seen on TV. It looks the same as in other east countries who now try the best to be like the rest of the western world.

LUX: Do you want to say something more ?

Yes. I suppose this is important. Many people ignore it. One of the most aberrated tendencies is a growing voice of the followers of those so called holocaust denial. The negation of Auschwitz and gas chambers, questioning of nazi genocide imported directly from western right wing historians who spread their bullshit here. Within polish nationalist and nazis this holocaust revisionism become more and more fashionable. Fucked up liars. I saw some echoes of this way of thinking in western countries. Ignorance is bliss. Nobody who grew up here including those neonazis who distribute this foreign bullshit here can believe in shitty manipulation. You know what I mean ? This is pure antisemit propaganda trying to manipulate peoples views on contemporary history. It is based on ignorance and lack of communication between people from west Europe and from here. It is also based on fear of truth. White west Europeans who believe in certain values are scared to know that the same elevated western people did those kind of abomination sixty years ago here, not far from their civilized homeland. Personally, we are too close to those places, so many eyewitnesses are still alive. They can’t fool us. Pity if they can do it to some people in the West.

Excuse me for this bitterness at the end of our conversation, JUDE is now ready to perform everywhere. We wait for some sort of support in any way. Each and everyone are welcome to any trade of opinions, music etc. Just write, ask, call.